Jazz master David Liebman on music, teaching and Toronto

U of T jazz students will soon have the chance to learn from a legend. David Liebman, sideman to the likes of Elvin Jones and Miles Davis, has been appointed adjunct professor of jazz and will make four intensive visits to U of T in 2014-2015 to teach students in U of T’s masters of jazz program.

Liebman comes to U of T with 40 years of experience and some of the world’s most prestigious jazz awards, including the National Endowment Award for Arts Masters of Jazz, the highest honour granted for jazz in the U.S. Liebman currently serves as artistic director of the International Association of Schools of Jazz (IASJ) and artist-in-residence at the Manhattan School of Music.

How did you become interested with jazz music?

When I was young there wasn’t any kind of organized jazz education resembling anything like there is today. But I remember hearing this really compelling music and thinking ‘Whatever that is I gotta find out more.” That was a kind of an epiphany, and from there things followed through. I would say without that epiphany I don’t know if I would have gone as far as I have. With jazz music you have to see it and feel it in front of you – it’s a very visceral thing. In my career I got a chance to play with Elvin Jones, the drummer who played with John Coltrane, and after that I was playing with Miles Davis who was Coltrane’s former boss. When I was able to enter that orbit, it was quite a thrill.

Sounds like you were playing with some real legends from a young age.

Yeah, and you know that’s how you did it in those days. You were a sideman to an established artist and you stayed with him for a while. You got your name out there and you got the experience of being with a master.

What’s the most exciting thing about coming to U of T and teaching this crop of young jazz musicians?

Everybody these days in the younger age group has had the opportunity to see things live or as close to live as possible on YouTube. That’s a really big deal because in my day we had to search records out and now you can hit a button and you’ve got every record in the world in front of you. Of course it’s not like seeing jazz live, but for a young person it’s fantastic. It’s a great way to be introduced to new musicians they may have never heard of and maybe never would have.

So this online world gives students an amazing introduction to jazz music and raises their awareness and appreciation of the genre. Those who are interested have a chance to really understand the past, to feel and see it. So often they come in with that equipment and knowledge.

What kind of reputation does Toronto’s jazz scene have in jazz circles?

Toronto is a major city that’s been home to a lot of clubs over the years: George’s Spaghetti House, The Rex and of course Massey Hall. It’s a major stop along the way, I’ve played Toronto in the 70s with Miles and Elvin Jones. In North America you think about Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Toronto and to a lesser extent Montreal.

Do you have a favourite club you like playing in Toronto?    

I like the Rex ‘cause it’s kinda funky and it’s got atmosphere. A long time ago there was the Colonial Tavern. I really enjoyed playing there in the 70s but it’s gone now. A jazz bar is not an economically viable business; you have to charge a lot of money and that restricts who can come. The music itself isn’t popular music, so having a club is a labour of love.

Was there any point during your career when you had doubts about continuing? When you wondered if this really was a financially viable career? 

I was considering being a lawyer in the early 80s. I even took the appropriate exams, resurrected my old college grades and transcripts and everything else you had to do, got in to a few schools and almost didn’t stick with jazz. It wasn’t so much the unreliability of making a living…..I was doing OK with that. It was a personal thing of like ‘Is this it for the rest of my life? I’m going to just play?’ I’ve already played for 10 years and travelled around the world, etc. So I started to wonder ‘Is this it for the next 40 years?’ That mid-life type of questioning.

What really saved me was teaching, which I got more in to at that time and it started to become more prevalent in America and especially in Europe in the early 80s. By then jazz was starting to be recognized as something that could be taught in a university or a conservatory setting. So I got pretty into it – I wrote books, and became head of an organization of world-wide schools that I still head after 25 years [International Association of Schools of Jazz].

What is the best thing about playing jazz?

Once you’re speaking the language, once you can manipulate your way through it and you get the thrill of making something up right there on the spot with other musicians.  The thing about jazz is the balance between individuality and group interaction – you have to do both. And it changes within seconds – your responsibility to either lead or follow can be just a split second decision. There are those moments when you’re playing that are really exciting and full of energy, when you feel you are on the brink.

The other thing is the camaraderie of jazz musicians. They’re really a decent bunch of people and there’s a unity no matter where you go. We were just in Thailand and played in Bangkok with musicians who were just like guys from New York. Everybody knows the same thing and everyone really appreciates it. I would venture to say there’s a certain personality that goes along with this music that I really dig.

What should music students at U of T – or others – know about the business of jazz?

That we should command and demand respect from the forces that be, which is the entertainment business. Jazz shouldn’t be relegated to the back room with 20 people. We need to raise the level of acceptance and appreciation and of course continue to teach jazz music.

We need to introduce jazz to people as early as possible, when they’re 10, 11 or 12 years old. They won’t necessarily become brilliant musicians, but they’ll build an appreciation of the music. 

You never hear anybody say ‘I don’t like jazz’, they just don’t know it. Once you get into jazz you never hear ‘OK, I think I’ll move to rock and roll now.' Usually it’s the reverse.

(Read more about David Liebman at U of T News.)

Michael Kennedy is a writer with University Relations at the University of Toronto.